EP13 – Crafting the perfect post and reflexology for adults & children with guest Emma de Pfeiffer Key

Hello, hello hello, good morning. And welcome to self startups. So today I’m going to be talking about crafting the perfect post for social media. And then I’m going to be talking a little bit later to Emma de Pfeiffer Key about reflexology and head massage. For both adults and children and even babies.

But first let’s talk about crafting the perfect post for social media.

Crafting the perfect (social media) post

My first question is, is there such a thing? I know a lot of women who spend a LOT of time thinking about posts, writing posts, rewriting posts, designing graphics, tweaking graphics, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The thing is, I don’t think you need to do that. It just winds you up and stresses you out. And the truth is hardly anyone sees your posts.

I know you don’t wanna hear this, but organic reach on social media platforms is dropping rapidly. As attention is scarce, and algorithms are set up to favor advertising. I know there are exceptions to this rule. I know there are people who have huge audiences and they typically have [00:02:00] a marketing team working on the posts.

I know there are posts that go viral. But they are actually pretty rare when you consider the volume of posts that go out every day. If you are a small business working on your own social media posts around all the other things that you need to do as a small business, I am going to say something controversial.

Don’t worry about making your posts perfect. Nobody cares. Shock horror. I know! That’s very hard to think about when you spend so much time carefully crafting things. Ask yourself the question. Is anyone going to die as a result of my post, having a typo in it or not being perfect? The answer: extremely unlikely.

In the extraordinary case that your answer is, yes, please do worry about your posts.

The purpose of posts is to show who you are and what you do. I hate to break it to you, but you are not perfect. In fact, your audience might like to know you aren’t. It makes you more human and approachable. [00:03:00] They might even like you more. So that’s my top tip for today. Let me know in the comments, what you think.

PS, I have a whole module for social media post planning in my program. So I know it’s important. That’s not what I’m saying. The module will help you to produce quality content and reduce the time it takes to do the work so that you can get posts out when you need to.

Next, I’m going to be talking to Emma de Pfeiffer Key about reflexology and head massage. Emma is the owner of DPK holistic therapy based in New Malden in Kent, in the UK. She travels around the south east providing reflexology services for adults and children, including baby and toddler groups.

Reflexology for children (including babies) & adults

Hello, hello, hello. So today I’m going to be talking to Emma de Pfeiffer Key. And I, I, I spotted a little [00:04:00] bit earlier that your website is DPK holistic therapy. And I thought, yes that’s because you don’t want people to have to spell out your name all the time, I guess?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: You would never find my website or be able to email me if I used the full name, would they?

Annette Clubley: No, no, exactly. Well, they have enough problems with my name and I, my name’s really not that complicated. And we’re gonna be talking reflexology for adults and children, and also babies, which I’m quite interested in, I’m wondering how early, how young you can have reflexology for your baby?

So yeah, yeah, tell us how you got started? How, what made you choose reflexology?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So my, my mom is a reflexologist actually. So when she was training, I was at home. I was just where I went to university. So I was very much her guinea pig that she practiced on. And I saw her going into the local hospice to support cancer patients and, and other volunteers, and just saw how powerful it can be to support people’s wellbeing and also what she got from it too, you know, that, that that feeling [00:05:00] of doing good makes you feel good too, doesn’t it?

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So that was kind of my original aspiration. And then it was my side hustle when I was working in the marketing corporate world. And it’s become a lot more of my main focus since, since I got made redundant August, 2020. But yeah, shall I tell you a bit more about reflexology in general?

Annette Clubley: Yes. Yes. Talk, talk to us about reflexology because I didn’t realize until I had it. I mean, I’ve had had it in the past, but recently I had a couple of sessions with someone and I hadn’t realized just how in depth it was.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Mm-hmm.

Annette Clubley: How actually how very interesting it is and how much you can tell from somebody’s, you know, about somebody’s health and wellbeing while you are doing the reflexology on them. And of course they talk, obviously [laughs].

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So exactly it’s, it’s two sides. It’s, you know, You are able to almost scan the whole body through the treatment. So it’s a holistic treatment. So it means it, it is concentrating on your whole body, even though I’m only just touching your feet or just your hands. And it’s also a complimentary treatment.

So it’s used to complement with other treatments, [00:06:00] you know? So if, if there is something going on, if you do have some form of disease, then obviously you will be taking medication, Western medicine, but this treatment will also give your body that extra boost ,that extra (undecipherable) as you as you get as you get better,.

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: But also one of the most amazing things is that, that you can do it anywhere. And any time, cause all you need is hands or feet.

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: You know and your feet are more susceptible because our hands become desensitized cuz you’re using ’em all the time.

Annette Clubley: Okay.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: But I know some people don’t like having their feet touched, which is why hand it it’s great as well to be able to do hand. But I just, I find feet more amenable to it because they get forgotten amount, you know, we, we’ve never really give our feet that much attention. So….

Annette Clubley: No, no, no, I certainly don’t. I certainly don’t. And do you think that part of the reason why it’s so good for people is because. It makes ‘them stop for just a few minutes, maybe? It’s just some time out for them.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So about 75% of disease is actually through stress. So anything [00:07:00] we can do to alleviate that stress cause relaxation and yeah, I mean, it is a although, because it’s holistic, although I’m just touching your feet. You do feel it throughout your whole body.

So I’ll, I’ll just I’ll take a step back actually. So it’s similar to kind of acupuncture and that concept of, of chi. So the paradigm of reflexology is that your body is broken into into twenty five zones, which are then reflected on your hands and your feet.

Annette Clubley: Okay.

Reflexology points and what they can do

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: And different parts of your hands and your feet represent different body systems and organs. So by pressure, on a, put on a part of your foot, your reflex on your foot, it actually causes and a change in the corresponding part of your body. So as you said, it relieves tension, you know, it helps with anxiety and stress, it encourages that relaxation, improves your mood and will also aid your sleep. So I like to describe it is if you think of your body almost like ma up made up of hose pipes, you start with your hands runs through, through your central nervous system and your feet and if there’s a kink in the hose pipe, you’re gonna be, you’re gonna feel [00:08:00] unbalanced. Your energy isn’t flowing around you. And it’s your, it’s your nerves? Your nerves run. Sorry, my dog is now growling cause there’s someone walking past it’s very professional. Isn’t it? So there’s a kink in the hose pipe, your energy isn’t flow around your body properly.

So by me putting a bit of pressure on that end of your nerve. in your (undecipherable) reflex point, that helps to unkink that hose pipe. It helps you to feel more balanced. It helps good wellbeing because your nervous energy is able to flow around your body freely.

Annette Clubley: Okay. Fascinating. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so what are the five systems? Are they things like nervous system and digestive system and things like that? What…,

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So it’s five zones. So, so, you know, it’s almost like, so this would be zone one, zone two, three those track, track through from your, so this is your head. So your thumb and your big toe represent your head because that’s the top.

And then as you go down, it, it represents different areas. So just under here, this is your lung area, just under your just under your fingers, but it’s, it’s all kind of tracked. So I’m able to find out where the [00:09:00] gallbladder is on your foot by tracing down from a certain point down a certain zone because the gallbladder sits within the certain zone of your body, but yeah, it supports all of the systems so that we have more than five, five systems, you know, digestive, endocrine, all of those things. But when I’m doing a treatment, if there is a blockage for me, it almost feels like there is sand under, under the skin, or sometimes almost like bubble wrap is popping under the skin, of that zone.

Annette Clubley: Okay.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: And then the client, it can also feel sensitive to them as well. It could be like an area of sensitivity. So at the end of a treatment, we always have a, a post consultation where I tell the client what I felt and they tell me what they felt. And it could be that it’s something that the client hasn’t even told me that they’re feeling, you know, I had a client the other day and I said, oh, your esophagus was, was quite poppy and they’re like, I’ve been struggling with reflux recently. And it’s something that they didn’t think to tell me, because they’ve been suffering with it for a while. And when you do suffer with things, say you have chronic back pain, you almost [00:10:00] forget to mention it because it’s just part of your everyday life, isn’t it?

Annette Clubley: Hmm, mmm.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So by me working on that reflex and, and helping to almost remove that grainy sand, remove the popping, that’s gonna give the body a bit of a kick up the bottom ..

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: ..To then heal itself. So because we can, our bodies are amazing. They can heal themselves. We just don’t. Always give ourselves a chance.

We don’t stop. We don’t relax. We don’t give ourselves the right attention. We unfortunately automatically just go and grab some, grab some drugs, sorry, I mean grab some medicine. So..

Annette Clubley: Yes

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: …actually the body, it, it is absolutely phenomenal if you just give it a chance to, to try and sort itself out.

Annette Clubley: Yeah. It is incredible. Well, that answers my next question. Cause I was gonna say, do you often identify someone’s problem or do they tend to come to you and say, this is the problem that I’ve had and then you work on it and you’ve basically said it’s both.

Complementary therapy

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So. Yeah, I’d say it was a bit of both. So people will come to me with a specific problem. If they’re [00:11:00] feeling quite anxious, I will then concentrate on the adrenal glands. Cause obviously that is the gland that releases adrenaline that gets us, you know, that fight or flight stance, that it’s great in short bursts but if we get stuck in it, that’s where our stress can then lead to anxiety and in some cases to depression. So by really working the adrenal glands can help to get you through that stress cycle and can get you out the other side and, and alleviate some of that that kinda flooding of adrenaline through your body. The TMJ, that’s a great point. So that’s the, that’s the joint that joins your jaw to your skull. And a lot of us get tension there and stress there. Cause we clench our teeth, you know, we grind our teeth when we’re stressed.

Same with babies. If babies are having teething pain, they will feel it a lot in this area. So that’s a great area of reflex to concentrate on to really alleviate.

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm .

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: But with clients, some, some just come because they quite fancy bit of a treat and through the discovery of the treatment, I will tell them what I felt. I’m not a [00:12:00] doctor, I’m not gonna give any diagnosis. I may be able to tell you where I felt an unbalance and then it is up to the client if they want to look into that a bit further, they’ll go and speak to a doctor, maybe see if there’s something going on or maybe they need to just like change their diet or change their approach to life, you know, they’re but it’s very much, I will just tell them what I discover and we talk it through and then it’s very much up to them how they then want to want to take on further. Hence it being complimentary treatment.

Annette Clubley: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Very much a complimentary treatment to a normal medicine, normal medicine, normal. Okay. Okay. That sounds interesting. So you’ve touched on babies now, how young can babies have reflexibility because I would never have thought about a baby having reflexology. My only experience of it has been adults, actually., I don’t even, you know, teenagers maybe, but not really any younger than that. So how young can you start?

Reflexology for babies & NCT groups

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: From four weeks actually. So I, [00:13:00] I trained it’s called the tiny toes method, reflex arch. It’s like a combination of massage and reflexology, and it was created by this wonderful lady called another Emma who used to be a midwife and now she’s a reflexologist. So she’s taken that kind of medical, you know, anatomy knowledge and put it through, into this, this technique. And I, I hold workshops where I have, you know, parents, predominantly moms, but, but parents or carers come and I will show them simple, but really effective techniques to support with colic, with reflux, with teething, digestive issues, you know. Just working around the large intestine reflex can have an incredible effect. I had a mom, we did a, we did the digestion the other day and literally two hours later sent me a text message saying “my child has done three poos. Thank you.” [laughter]

I had a three year old the other day. He’d he hadn’t gone to the toilet for four d, four days and his mom was exasperated, tried everything. [00:14:00] I went and did a treatment at 5:00 PM on him. And, you know, he was pulling his foot away because it was obviously a reflex that was causing discomfort, but through, you know, talking to him, trying to make him comfortable, was able to do the treatment on him. And that evening he went to the toilet four times, you know? So..

Annette Clubley: Perfect. Yeah.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: It’s giving the body a bit of a poke and a bit of a nudge to remind what it should be doing naturally..

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: …and something has become unbalanced. So it’s Yeah, it’s brilliant. It’s powerful stuff.

Annette Clubley: Very powerful stuff. And do, should, you know, should it be painful? Should if, if it being painful, it being uncomfortable, is a sign that something, you found something or that you’re working on something, should reflexology be uncomfortable. Or not?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Uh, you, you want them to feel relaxed, so you don’t want a client to be in pain. So there are different ways that you can do the pressure to, to make it softer and harder. So..

Annette Clubley: Okay.

Reflexology can help start a natural labour

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: You use your thumbs and your fingers [00:15:00] and you do almost thumb walking. So rather than a massage, it’s a different technique. If you really wanna work a reflex, you can use your knuckle. Like, if I’m doing the pituatary gland, for example, helping women bring on a natural labor, I’m really gonna work that pituatary gland in the, in the brain and use my knuckle to really get deep.

The same during the uterus and the ovary reflex, you know? If you’re trying to bring on a natural labor from (undecipherable), you really want to get deep into those reflexes. If it’s painful. No, that’s gonna be counterintuitive cause it’s not gonna be relaxing, but it’s almost like with a sports massage, you know, that pain where, you know, it’s doing good.

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: There’s an element of that as well. You know? So it’s with a child, I always tell, tell the parents when I’m teaching them the methods to, to do themselves, when they get home, it’s just like, you know your child, you ? if you know this is uncomfortable for your child, don’t push it because that’s gonna be counterproductive. They’re not gonna get enjoyment from it. It’s not gonna be relaxing, but there is an element of, if it is an uncomfortable reflex, there’s obviously a [00:16:00] blockage there. Isn’t there?

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: You do want to try and alleviate that too.

Reflexology for cancer patients

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm mm-hmm so very similar to massage then. Yeah, because sometimes you need a heavier massage. And sometimes you don’t want it. You just want something that’s gonna completely relax you. Exactly. Yeah, it all depends on where you are. Okay. And so, very interesting. So you touched on cancer patients earlier with.. How much can you do to help people who are seriously ill? Is it just a, a touch cause obviously touch helps a lot when you are ill, doesn’t it?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Yep.

Annette Clubley: Just having people around and, and you know what I mean? That’s supportive atmosphere helps doesn’t it?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Yeah.

Annette Clubley: How much does it help in the actual physical illness with an actual physical illness? Or is it a about that? Support.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: It’s a combination, really? It is, you know, a lot of my clients because they are feeling very relaxed and because if they come to me, I’ve got a cabin in the garden. It’s a lovely tranquil space [00:17:00] that they do often then start to open up and, and, and actually that, that talking therapy really is gonna help them. Just that element of switching off, of concentrating on themselves, of really getting into a relaxed state, you know, some of my clients literally float back home and they just feel absolutely wonderful.

I’ve the way I describe it is a similar to a massage it’s like I’ve taken a snow globe, mixed it up and their toxins are now floating all over their body. So. I, I encourage people to drink a lot of water after treatments. So you can really flush your system, get all those toxins out of your body, which is gonna benefit you from a health point of view.

In regards to someone, if they’re really unwell, I would never say that reflexology should be used instead of medicine or instead of seeing a doctor, as I said before, it is a complimentary treatment. It’s if it’s a disease or an, an illness that your body can heal itself, then reflexology is going to help you.

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm .

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: But yes, it would. I would never say it should be in, in, instead.

Annette Clubley: It’s not gonna heal. Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:00] Fair enough.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: It’s giving the body a chance to heal itself. That’s what it is. You know, I’m not healing you,…

Annette Clubley: The body can heal.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: I’m putting pressure on points of your body that gives your body a kick up the bottom to, to try and heal itself, you know?

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So it’s just aiding your body, to do what it should be doing anyway, but it’s either forgotten or it’s become distracted or it’s, you know, we, you know, sometimes. Because of all the other things we put in our body or this, the environments we’ve surround ourselves, our bodies aren’t able to function to their a hundred percent capacity.

So reflexology just helps you take that step in the, in the right direction to get back to that, that normal function, really.

Annette Clubley: Similar to the sort of kick starting of a natural labor .

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Completely.

Annette Clubley: You know what I mean? It’s not causing the labor. The body is causing the labor. It’s just getting it over that hump basically isn’t it really?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So, you know, I I’m, I’m putting pressure on the, on the pelvis. I’m, I’m trying to help the, the pituatary and the hypothalamus release hormones that are gonna help then bring on the labor, you know what I [00:19:00] mean? So it’s just poking the right areas..

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: …kind, you know reduced version, poke the right areas to, to make the body do what it needs to help you. (laughter)

Annette Clubley: Prodding Just sounds, all sounds very physical to me.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Mm.

Annette Clubley: So we talked earlier about the fact that you work locally, but that you also travel to work with people.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Yeah.

Annette Clubley: Can you, can you do relfexology online?

Can you do reflexology online?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: I can do so. Yeah, that, and that’s why I’ve recently done hand re advanced hand reflexology because it it’s quite easy for me to give homework to people to do their own hand, once they’ve come see me for a treatment, but also that’s something that I can do virtually. Obviously it’s a bit harder for me to demo on a foot. I have a foot model I can use. It is a touch therapy. I, I like doing the therapy to other people. I, I use it as like a meditative state for myself, you know, it’s my mindful practice working through the routine, but I, I, I have done sessions.

I do talks on it. As I said, I’m, I’m trained to teach parents to empower [00:20:00] parents to do it on, on their own children. So I do that virtually I’m going into schools to show other occupational therapists and teachers simple methods, so they can then support children with their special educational needs cause touch therapy is great for, for children that, that have different challenges. And then also fertility. So, a friend of mine she’s, she was due two days ago. I sent her a video last night showing on my foot what she needs to get her husband to do to try and get things moving. So yes, there are ways that I could do it virtually.

But I also I’m. I love traveling around and, and going to support people in different places as well, because. Especially if someone is pregnant and overdue, I’m going to see a lady who’s 40 weeks. She’s you know, 20 minute drive away, gonna go see her this afternoon to hopefully help get things moving for her.

Annette Clubley: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So predominantly it’s about that touch. It’s about your personal interaction with the person it’s.. So yeah. Yeah, I can understand that.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: If I, if I can help someone help [00:21:00] themselves, then I love being, I love empowering people with knowledge ,that’s wonderful…

Annette Clubley: Hmm mm.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: ….But I also really enjoy it. That’s why I do it. You know, I love, I love what I do. It’s wonderful. And I get much from it as the client does as well. You know,?

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm , mm-hmm and it sounds like one of your favorite areas to work in is that pregnancy, overdue, and then young, young babies, it sounds like?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Yeah, I’ve always, I’ve been very, you know, I’ve got a two year old and a six year old and I do treatments on them to support their wellbeing.

And I’m very passionate about supporting children, but at. But I’ve recently another string to my bow is kind of working on that conception. So helping women who might be struggling with their fertility I’ve got quite a few friends that is quite close to close to my heart. So I wanted to, to add that to my repertoire as well.

So yeah, I just. But then saying that I’ve got a few patients that are, that have just come out the other end of, of cancer treatment and that, you know, I do Indian head massage as well. So helping people that have lost their hair to like stimulate the hair follicles to bring [00:22:00] on hair growth and, and any tension in that area cause it’s obviously come through such a life changing, stressful experience. So I love it. I love it all.

Annette Clubley: Yes. Yes. Yes, exactly. Chemotherapy is devastating basically to the body. It really is. Okay. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see that. I can see that. All of those basically are areas where it really helps to relax, you know, trying to get pregnant.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Mm-hmm

Annette Clubley: ….during pregnancy, waiting for your labor to happen, you know, and then also with very young babies.. All of those are times of your life, when it can really help you to relax for, you know, and just, and just unwind a little bit and also yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just as you say, help get things kick started. That would be really helpful. So how, where is the furthest you’ve ever traveled?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: I’ve driven for an hour to go and see a client.

Annette Clubley: Mm. Yeah.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Which you know, or I’ve got on the train central [00:23:00] and traveled 45 minutes an hour. I don’t, I, yeah, I, I don’t, I mean, I’ve gone to festivals which are obviously further to go and do talks and, and treatments at those.

But no, I just, I think if. Get in touch with me if I’m able to make it work because I do, I always try and prioritize my clients. I do marketing freelance and I do wellbeing training as well with a company called 0.3 wellbeing. But for me, my clients are always my priorities. So I just say, send me three dates and times that work for you.

Do you want me to come to you? Do you wanna come to me and I’ll make one of them work? You know, that’s kind of my approach, which is not the traditional approach to a treatment, but it works for me. It works with my my portfolio career in juggling a young family as well. And my clients seem to enjoy that flexibility too. So that’s. That’s good.

Annette Clubley: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Because I think there is, there are the two personalities. There is the person who goes, I really want you to come to me because then when I’m floating off in that really relaxed state, I don’t have to get in the car and drive somewhere.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Yep.

Annette Clubley: And then [00:24:00] you have the other person who wants to get out.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Yep.

Annette Clubley: You know, they, they actually want to get away from their desk or away from their home for a little while and have that space. And so they would rather come to you because that suits them better. So I can imagine working both ways for different personalities at different stages in their life. You know, maybe when you’ve got very small children at home, maybe? Don’t have the … Without the mommy, mommy, mommy [laughter]

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: I had a client come to me yesterday and she was like ‘can I come to you?’ and you could tell for the tone of her email that she wanted to get out the house.

Annette Clubley: Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So that’s great. So how do people, how should people get hold of you? What’s the easiest way to get hold of you?

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: So my website is www.dpk-ht.com. Very simple url. Or I am on Instagram.

But yes, it’s on my website. There’s just a form. You can just fill in an email, automatically get sent to me. And I’m as, because I am [00:25:00] rocking their portfolio new career, I’m very responsive on emails and we’ll just get straight back and then we’ll just get that date in. And as I said, yeah, willing to travel to you within a certain distance caveat or, or more than welcome to have you here. And one other thing I’d love to say is with the baby workshops, although I host workshops in my cabin, I do like four week periods of workshops. I also go to people’s houses say there was a group of NCT friends and you wanted to do something, I would come for an hour and I would show you all, in the comfort of your own home. I say there were six friends. You could, you could have if there’s enough space in your sitting room for everyone to be on the floor with their babies. And I can then show you some of the, the top simple techniques to, to treat your, your baby. So that’s really lovely. It’s it’s such a, it’s a lovely little thing to do with your NCT. It’s just something a bit different really than normal baby group.

Annette Clubley: Mm-hmm yes, yes. And I can see that being appealing and because there’s a, you know, there’s a lot of those little groups all over the place basically aren’t there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:00] Okay. So that would be a really nice way to work with a group of people.

Yeah. I can see that. Okay. So website, I’ll put I’ll drop links to the website. And to your Instagram account, into the post so that people can come and find you. And yeah. Thank you very, very much for talking to me today. It’s been a pleasure. it’s really super interesting. Isn’t it? Because on the surface, it’s just like, oh, well it’s just a massage kind of like just having a massage, having a treat, but actually there’s an awful lot more.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Well it’s, it was, you know, I did biology level and when I was studying reflexology, I felt like I was back in my biology A level and it’s very cause I am treating the whole body. So it’s very very intricate.

Annette Clubley: Yes, yes. And more involved than perhaps most people realize. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you very much for taking the time out of your busy day and and coming to talk to us. And as I say, I will drop links so that people know how to get hold of you into the post.

Emma de Pfeiffer Key: Amazing. Thank you so much.

Contact Emma on her website www.dpk-ht.com or find her on Instagram @dpkholistic