EP19 – Making headlines and why now is the season to change careers

Hello, everybody. Let’s talk about headlines today after which I’ll be talking to Anna Crommelin, who’s a transformational therapist about why this is the season you need to move into a new vocation that excites your soul.

You know, often when you are getting crickets, it has to do with your headline.

Maybe no one is opening your emails or no one is requesting a free guide, or even no one wants to sign up for your course. Unless you are a professional copywriter, you have a really good grip on who your audience is and what your message is, the problem can lie in the headline, not in the offer.

Making headlines

Headlines need to capture people within seconds.

The best headlines use power words, emotive words, or numbers – think about listicles. As a coach, emotive words are your friends. Most of your potential customers are looking for help with something that matters to them. If your headline is dry and boring, it isn’t going to cut it.

Try AB testing, a few different headlines for the same email (Active campaign allows you to AB test and MailChimp does [00:02:00] too) or your lead magnets. Use emotion and remember to tell people what the transformation will be.

It totally is worth investing in a copywriter, if this is not your strong point. If your zone of genius is people and encouragement, it might not be copy. Admit it, seek help, and move on.

Next. I’m going to be talking to Anna Crommelin. Anna is a transformational therapist and she runs a Facebook group called The Thrive Co. She’s based in the sunny gold coast in Queensland, Australia.

Hello everybody. So today I’m going to be talking to Anna Crommelin, who is a transformational therapist. And we’re going to be talking about why this is the season that you need to move into a new vocation that ignites your soul. And I really love that topic because I think [00:03:00] there’s quite a lot around that. I think a lot of us are rethinking our careers right now. So welcome Anna.

Anna Crommelin: Thank you Annette for having me.

Annette Clubley: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for coming on the podcast. So we talked a little bit about how you got started in the work that you’re currently doing. So can you just let us know again w what your background is, how did you get into the sort of coaching business that you’re in?

Mental health and work environments

Anna Crommelin: Well, Annette I’ve been a social worker for about 18 years and that in being a social worker involves being a counselor, being an advocate for individuals working, particularly in health, hospitals, and also in mental health. So I’ve loved that career. There’s been some jobs in that career that I haven’t particularly enjoyed because of like colleagues or bureau, bureaucratic stuff, but [00:04:00] on the whole, my passion is working with people to, for them to become empowered, for them to choose the life that they want to live.

And what I noticed throughout my time, working in hospitals and working with really unwell people is that the people that were physically sick and mentally sick, they were incredibly unfulfilled and they were like all the relationships around them were either destructive or full of conflict. Particularly because of the work that they were doing, they might’ve had a boss that was bullying them colleagues that were bullying them, they were in a highly stressed job, they weren’t earning enough money. They were earning enough money, but then they weren’t fulfilled. So it was always coming back to these relationships and they were spending, you know, eight to 10, 12 hour days with these colleagues or with this [00:05:00] job, that was really just not servicing them and, and having an impact on their health.

How Covid has changed the way we work

So during COVID, because I was seeing people face to face before COVID, but then once COVID hit, we were really encouraged by the government and also through lockdowns, not to see people face to face. And I’d never been an online person. I sort of have always got my referrals very organically through like maybe a GP or through the Australian Association of Social Workers website.

So I just got on online and I created a Facebook group called The Thrive Co and I just started exploring other groups on there. And just saw this sort of whole world of people that were saying that they weren’t fulfilled or, you know, oh, this is so amazing that I get to work from [00:06:00] home now. And, you know, I’ve got more flexibility and freedom and that word just kept coming up and coming up and I thought this is an, this is an area that I want to go headfirst into and work more with people on that. So that’s kind of how things have grown for me.

Annette Clubley: Mm. So there’s two very interesting things there: the first is that connection between physical illness and your relationships, how supported you feel and sort of almost your mental health, isn’t it? There’s almost a direct relation between the two isn’t there?

Anna Crommelin: Yes, there is.

Annette Clubley: The second is you must have a vast amount of experience of people from all sorts of spheres of life. And that you’ve seen this pattern across people?

Anna Crommelin: Yes, I’m really, you know, I’m really good. And I’d probably say that if you’re a good social worker, you’re good at pattern recognition.

Annette Clubley: Okay.

Anna Crommelin: So you see these [00:07:00] patterns happen with people. And that is, that is really the number one pattern that I’ve seen throughout my career.

Annette Clubley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Really interesting. I don’t think people realise how much the physical is affected by mental health. You know?

Anna Crommelin: Yes.

Annette Clubley: I think it’s certainly here in the UK, there’s been a lot more awareness of it since Covid. Because since locked down, people have realized that how much they depended on relationships and how much they depended on being able to see people in person and put their arms around people and all of that sort of thing. And I think they didn’t realize that until it was taken away.

And, and also as you’ve touched on, a lot of people are reassessing how they’re working since lockdown, you know? They realizing that actually they don’t have to commute two hours or three hours into an office and home again, every day. They’re just as productive from home and they feel much happier about it.

Anna Crommelin: Yes.

Annette Clubley: And part of that is getting away sometimes from those [00:08:00] colleagues, they don’t really get along with very well, sometimes?


Anna Crommelin: They’re micromanaged. That’s the big thing, is that not having that autonomy to make decisions. You know, in the role that you’re making, you always have to answer to someone and if they don’t like it, then they’re micromanaging you and it’s just all of that kind of thing that really weighs down on our human soul, I think, because we are autonomous beings. We live together, but we also like to be able to make our own decisions. And so we were told what to do during COVID and we’re told what to do when we’re at work and it can get incredibly draining for people. It can just really bring them into a depression

Annette Clubley: Yes.

Anna Crommelin: Or irritability or, you know you know, problematic relationships with their children [00:09:00] as well. Their children become a bit of a burden rather than a joy because they’re just working and they’re feeling attacked. So it’s such a flow on effect in all areas of your life, if you’re not feeling fulfilled in your job.

Annette Clubley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s, that’s absolutely absolutely. You know? Here in the UK, there was quite a [inaudible] where the people were, the, you know, office, people were working from home and trying to school their children from home as well. And that was super stressful.

Well actually there’s often this pressure on parents, because as you say, they, you know, they need to work to earn. And so every time the school phone, some admin goes, you know, when we’ve decided to close early or, you know, all of this sort of thing, they have this problem all the time. Whereas if their work is flexible and allows them to work from home, that’s really not an issue. It’s not an issue if they, you know, the school closes early, cause you just go and pick them up and then you carry on working and..

Anna Crommelin: That’s right.

Annette Clubley: [00:10:00] Sorry. I don’t know if you can hear that, but my neighbor has clearly decided to do some Saturday morning DIY.

Anna Crommelin: Could also be my kids upstairs, running around as well. So we might have the same issue.

Annette Clubley: This is the thing about a Saturday morning, I think. So yeah, I think, certainly for me, the thing I love most about working for myself is that flexibility.

Anna Crommelin: Yeah.

Annette Clubley: I work harder and longer hours than I’ve ever done before, but I can schedule them around. If I decide that I want to take an afternoon off, I can take an afternoon off. And then I work it in at another time. And I absolutely love that flexibility. And I think that is often the driver for a parent to rethink changing careers or starting a business for themselves is that ..

Anna Crommelin: [inaudible]

Annette Clubley: Yeah, they don’t anymore want to be told by an employer ‘you have to be in the office from nine to five and you get this [00:11:00] hour for lunch and you, you know what I mean? You call it, you get this 15 minute break and you must do this. And you must do that at this time of day, on this day of the week’ and all of that sort of stuff. That sort of micromanagement, as you said just..

Anna Crommelin: Yes.

Annette Clubley: ..It gets you down eventually because you just think you employed me to do this job. I’m capable of doing this job. Why don’t you let me get on with the job, you know?

Anna Crommelin: That’s right. That’s right. A hundred percent. And so many people are feeling that way.

Annette Clubley: Yeah. Yeah. So do you think that’s reason why it’s now the season as you call it for people to start re reviewing this? Do you think it was just a natural time as we go back to work that when, you know, it’s time to start thinking about what we want from life?

Reassessing our work life

Anna Crommelin: I think it’s the season for changing all areas, to be honest, I think COVID really has got us to examine all aspects of our life. And it is an opportunity. A lot of people see [00:12:00] it as a negative, but I see it as now an opportunity for us to just go “what is it that I want to do with my life? What’s good for me? What’s good for my family? What’s good for my community?’ And that’s why it’s the season, because we have this opportunity now because we’ve seen a lot of institutions in our society where they, you know, had that mother father role. And we were looking at them going, hang on a second you probably haven’t been working for me as well as you should have.

It’s time for us to be more yeah. Individualistic, but in a compassionate way. And yeah, it’s definitely the time to really take the bull by the horns and say, Yeah, let’s do this. Let’s let’s start making changes so that I can get to the, get to the [00:13:00] goal that I want to get to. It’s not like, okay, let’s throw everything in the beam, quit the job, you know, do pull the kids out of school from the, you know, whatever. It’s just small changes on the road to where you want to go.

Annette Clubley: Okay. That’s yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anna Crommelin: Let’s start that process now.

Annette Clubley: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a really useful point because before we before we started today, we had a quick chat about the fact that, you know, often you’ve built up a whole career. You’ve built up a whole skillset and qualificaitons to do a job and you are potentially earning quite a lot of money. And then, so it’s a big jump to move away from that into a different way of working sometimes financially, but also emotionally then. ’cause you go from being known quite well confident in your skills to being, oh, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not as sure of what I’m doing as well as the, the money, the money thing. [00:14:00] And so what do you think people, I mean, how to, was going to say, how do people start that process? You know, You can, because especially if they are depressed and even as far as physically ill…

Anna Crommelin: Yeah.

Annette Clubley: …How do they go about even starting that? You know, they..

How to change careers

Anna Crommelin: I guess they need to be able to hear that it’s okay. To think about a different future.

It’s okay to maybe dream a little bit, take some time to think about what it is that you really want, because it’s all just. Small steps. You know, a little bit of momentum, a little bit of momentum. If you’re depressed, you’re not going to just go, well, I’m going to move into this job. It’s small steps to working out what is it that I want in life?

And the more people start talking about that, the more [00:15:00] contagious that message will become and allow people to think like that. Because there’s such a focus on we’re pouring all this money, the government into mental health prevention and things like that. But our mental health, you know, is getting worse.

Even with all these billions of dollars going in, the messaging is wrong. The messaging needs to be, you know, what can I do to take more control of my life, to be more empowered? And it, it really starts even in the education system where, when you go to your careers counseling, I don’t even know if they do that anymore, I’m a bit old, but when I was a teenager, we had to go into the office and say, oh, I want to go… there wasn’t even an option, really not to go to university either. It was like, okay, so you’re going to university. Yes. Okay. What is it that you going to do? Ah, [00:16:00] I don’t think you really suit that, or maybe you should go down this path.

That’s really the wrong approach with anyone. And I’ve heard parents say to me, “oh, she’s, she’s so good at art. You should see her drawings, but that’s not a career. So she really needs to, you know, do something a lot more practical, like ma like maybe study law or something.”

And I’m like, oooo, you know, why are we saying that to people which, you know, the whole messaging has to change.

So I just say, allow people to see maybe that there could be a different path. And if you start having those feelings, you know, maybe reach out and talk with your husband, your mother, whoever you feel comfortable with about maybe exploring a different path, a [00:17:00] different vocation. And then, yeah, like maybe speaking to someone like me or joining a Facebook group, but you know, I’m down the track.

It’s got to start with you actually believing that I could maybe do something different.

Annette Clubley: Different. Yes, yes. And taking the responsibility of the only person that can change what I’m doing is me.

Anna Crommelin: Yes.

Annette Clubley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s really interesting that you say that because the podcast that I published yesterday was an interview with a lady who works with challenging teenagers and actually suicidal teenagers.

And she said, often people don’t ask them, people assume that a 16 year old knows what they want to do with the rest of their life. And that I, you know, I think back to myself at 16, I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do with the rest of my life at 16, no idea. You know?

Anna Crommelin: Neither did I.

Annette Clubley: [00:18:00] Often you have students starting university and then changing course midway through university because they actually start university doing what they think they should be doing. And then they suddenly realize that this isn’t them at all, and they don’t want to spend three years doing that and they come out the other side of it with crippling debt.

Anna Crommelin: Yes.

Annette Clubley: And they get the first corporate job that they can get with their qualifications basically. And so they start down this route. And also in my own reading recently, I’ve been reading about that sort of parental influence on, you know, your choice of career. So like you said, you know, the parents go, hmmm you can’t make a, or the teacher goes, hmmm you can’t make a career out of art, but you clearly can make a career out of art, you know?

Anna Crommelin: Especially in this day and age.

Annette Clubley: Yes.

Anna Crommelin: With all the NFTs and the Instagram and everything it is ripe, it is ripe for the artistic expression. It is ripe.

Annette Clubley: Absolutely. Well, I’ve [00:19:00] got a software development background and I mean, they’re are graphic designers making vast quantities of money with their creative skills online…

Anna Crommelin: That’s right.

Annette Clubley: … In the web industry. So we definitely can. So yeah. Yeah. And, but often you listen to what your parents say or what to teacher says and you, you go down this route and you do what you think you should do, and you wake up much later on in your life and you think all my life I’ve been doing what I should be doing and not what I want to be doing. So there’s a lot there to unpack in terms of, you know, I’m learning that and saying it is okay for me to say what I want with my life, because you only get one life.

Anna Crommelin: Yeah, that’s right. And if you’re 16 or 17, and you think I’m not ready for uni or I don’t even know if I want to be able to want to go to uni.

Then you should be allowed to say that, you know, you might end up going to uni at 20, but you might want to just work a little [00:20:00] bit and get a bit of money and, you know, do other courses or just be an adult and, and, you know, learn to be responsible. I mean, there’s so many ways of living. We don’t have to just follow a prescribed path because we’re all so different.

Annette Clubley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don’t know about Australia, but certainly here in the UK, there’s the Open University. I did my degree through the open university and that, it’s such an amazing opportunity because I know I held down a full-time job. I had two children at home and I did the university degree on the side. You know, it is such an amazing opportunity to be able to do that and not have to commit to three full-time years of study at a university.

Anna Crommelin: That’s right.

Annette Clubley: Although it not quite so much fun as living on campus and partying, you know.

Anna Crommelin: That’s expensive, that’s expensive for a lot of people. And we need to have [00:21:00] that flexibility in the education system. We need to allow people to have, you know, more innovation to more imagination and offering all sorts of courses for people because people are going to have different circumstances is essential.

We should be doing that as a society.

Annette Clubley: Yes. Yes. Well researching for a client the other day, I was reading an article about the fact that the children that leave school now they’re ,the jobs that they go into didn’t exist, you know, 10 years ago.

Anna Crommelin: That’s right.

Annette Clubley: And the children that are starting school now, the jobs that they will actually, the job title of the job that they will become doesn’t exist yet because the career industry is changing so rapidly at the moment.

So tell me a bit about how you work with people. Do you have materials that people can work through on their own or do you tend to work with people one-to-one? How does that work?

Help with career changes

Anna Crommelin: I would definitely work with people one to one. That’s that’s [00:22:00] really, I don’t sort of make any videos and you have to watch them.

It’s really one-to-one because we’ve got to have a connection, a relationship, because then you’re going to actually, you know, work towards your goals. Like, I can’t be someone that’s sort of sitting back and, you know, we might just catch up, you know, like it’s gotta be formalized and it’s got to be practical and I’ve got to be there with you as one of your, you know, cheer squad and saying, okay, we’re going to do this week is a, what we’re going to do week two is b.

Of course, we’re going to tailor it to everyone’s individuality, but yeah, it’s definitely one-on-one, that’s my passion. I’ll tell you a quick story about when I was working at a hospital in Melbourne and it was a really great job. We [00:23:00] used to walk with people that had like a disability or people that might’ve had a stroke or people that had dementia or, but we were able to go to their home.

So I might go to their home with like a speech therapist that was helping someone with their speech issues related to a stroke that they were having. And I would go with them because they would tell me, look, I think this person is quite depressed.

Annette Clubley: Okay.

Making it happen

Anna Crommelin: So I went along one day with the speech therapist. She was working with a man in his sixties and he had a form of dementia that impacted on his speech. And so I got there and he was living in this really beautiful house. And there was all these amazing black and white photos all through the house of like scenes in Melbourne and over history over like 20, 30 years. And I said, oh, where did you buy those. And he said, you know, as he tried to [00:24:00] talk, but he said, I took them and then he took me to his room and there was just all these photos. And I said, have you sold, like, have you shown anyone, any of these? Have you sold any of these? No.

And I am like, what? So, you know, of course me being me, I said, we’ve got to show people these photos, like this is, this is amazing. Like, I want to do something here. I want to make, do an art exhibition for you. And he was like, yep. Yeah. Like thinking she’s a mad woman. Like who’s this person that she’s brought to the house and the wheels started turning and I spoke to people.

And I went to an art gallery just down the road from him. And they said, tell him to come in and bring his photos. So we picked him up brought the photos. They loved the photos said, we’d like to show them for a week and a half. Then I was like, okay, let’s have a, you know, an opening [00:25:00] night exhibition. And then he can do a speech because his speech was deteriorating.

So that was a good way of therapy is for him to get up there in front of a room full of people and do a speech. So then it was like, okay, we’ve got to get all these people. Yeah. We got local journalists to print in the local paper about him. Then he got on a radio show. So everything spiraled, but this is what I was working with him.

Okay. Let. Get on a radio show and like, but I, I’m not speaking very well. I’m like, doesn’t matter we’re doing he, but wait, he, we had the art exhibition. We had the opening night. We had a hundred people turn up. Only five people were the people that he knew, the rest of the strangers people bought his stuff.

And at the end he came up. And it was actually my last day working in Melbourne. I was going overseas for a holiday and he just gave me this hug and said, thank you. Like, and he did his speech and [00:26:00] he was like, he was just dazzling. His whole face and everything was lit up. And I thought to myself at the time, how am I going to do this sort of work in the future?

Like, it’s really hard to get those types of jobs. Like I can’t just bowl into a social work job and say, I’m just going to help people get these. But that always stayed me. I just, from, from that point on, I was like, I just have to do something like that in the future because he like, and I wasn’t just doing it because I saw these photos.

Like these photos were brilliant. Like he had an eye, and just because of his era, I suppose he, you know, it, wasn’t sort of encouraged to do that as a vocation. And yeah, so I just was like, now, when I talk about this as the season, like it’s the season for me as [00:27:00] well. It’s the season for me to give that to other people.

Annette Clubley: Yes.

Anna Crommelin: Work with other people.

Annette Clubley: Yes. I can hear that. You can hear that in the passion of the story that you’re telling. You know, I think it must be often that, you know, you, you read things like there’s a book in everybody or whatever. And often I think there are these incredible stories that never really come to light.

There are all of these people that have done amazing things in their lives that they never talk about, you know, and nobody else ever talks about it for them and they, yeah, there’s, it’s a missed opportunity, isn’t it? And if you could help them to move into something, to doing something that they love, then, you know, That’s worth its weight in gold, isn’t it it’s worth its weight in gold.

And I do think that the kind of work that you’re doing has to be done one-on-one I think this, you know, it’s all very well, all of these people, aren’t they, and they’ve got courses going, you know, we’ll help you find your passion and we’ll help you find yours, but [00:28:00] sometimes you need that external perspective because you just, you won’t make that step by yourself.

Because you have these layers and layers and layers of belief and, you know, past history and things that parents have told you and all of this sort of stuff, holding you down, it’s very hard for you to step outside of that and look at yourself from an external perspective and yes, this is possible. Yeah.

Support during change

Anna Crommelin: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you’ve got to have someone that you can talk to, not just like, you know, following a course, because if things come up for you, you need to be able to speak about them at your next meeting. Or it could just be something practical, like, you know, okay. I’ve discovered that I’m, you know, we’ve, we work out, I’ve discovered that I’m really good at you know, doing portraits for people.

I, you know, I do these beautiful portraits life drawings for people. I’ve always [00:29:00] done it, but how am I going to get that out there? So it could be just working together practically about, okay. so what social media, let’s talk about that. Let’s how we get seen on that. How do you feel about that? You know, like there’s a whole range of things that you need to be able to bounce those ideas off, with someone and just going through a course, you can’t ask those questions.

And even if you it’s just that you want to change your job to another job in your field, but you. You know, you love your job, but you you’re having difficulty, you know, presenting yourself or writing your resume or what should I say in an interview? How should I tell my story? You know, you can’t get that from a course.

Like you have to speak with someone one-on-one so..

Annette Clubley: Yes, yes. Have to have that confidence to apply in the first [00:30:00] place. Otherwise you just don’t. Yes. Yes. I totally can see how that, you know, that would really help lots of people. I mean, people come to me often and they that’s the biggest hurdle. They, you know, they’ve retrained, so they’ve got the skills but they don’t have the confidence like they did in their career to go, you know, this is who I am, this is what I do. Here’s the benefits of what I do. Therefore, this is what I’m worth being paid for. That’s a very big hurdle for lots of people that I work with.

Anna Crommelin: And it’s about, you know, looking at your skills because say, you know, we talked previously about a friend that’s a psychologist and she doesn’t enjoy that anymore.

And she doesn’t want to change because of all the years, 10 years of study, but the skills that she has developed being a psychologist, are so transferable to any other field, it’s just having someone [00:31:00] say, well, have you thought about it this way? Or have you thought about it that way? Or maybe we can present it like this and you then realize, hang on a second, I’m really qualified.

I can do this. Just because I haven’t, you know, been in that field, but I have all these other skills, that I can bring to this field and I’m sure I can be successful. So we’ve got to break down those barriers a bit to, to entry, and it’s the way that you present yourself. It’s the way you tell the story.

It’s your belief in yourself? That’s going to get you there.

Annette Clubley: Yes, absolutely. Okay. So how do people find you? How do they find out more? Where’s the best place?

The best place is just go to my Facebook page. I’m just like, right. Anyone can come to my Facebook page [00:32:00] Anna Cromme lin. Add me as a friend. We’ll have a chat.

If you want to join my Facebook group, it’s called The Thrive Co. Private group inside so that people can feel comfortable saying what they want, but you can search it. I’m in the process. I know my husband’s like, wow, you’re actually making a website, you know, and all my years, I haven’t. So I’m actually making a website as well.

So I am doing those things, but yeah, just come and find me on Facebook or Instagram. I’m on Instagram at Anna Crommelin. Just send me a message and, you know, we can just be connected that way. Even if you just like curious as to what I speak about. Just yeah. I’m open to meeting new people all the time.

Yes. Yes. Fabulous. Fabulous. Okay. Well, I’ll add a link to your Facebook profile in, in the blog post so that people can then come and find you, and then they can send you a message from there and pick it up from there, or friend request you from there. So that’s brilliant. [00:33:00] Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today.

Anna Crommelin: I really, you know, got a kick out of this and it was really enjoyable. This is my first I’m going to, this is my first podcast.

Annette Clubley: Is it? Your first guest spot.

Anna Crommelin: My first guest spot. So, you know, I’ve done a lot of being the guest on friend’s things things, but this was my first guest spot of, you know, reaching out to someone that I had never met. And it’s been really wonderful. So thank you.

Annette Clubley: Brilliant. Brilliant. It’s been lovely having you, and this is such a big subject, you know, I think we could probably just keep talking and talking and talking about it because there’s so much there. And, and almost everybody I meet has been through this process of reevaluating their lives deciding what they really want and then starting to take those steps towards what they really want. And so then they started a business in my case and come to me, retrain and started a business and come to me and go on how do [00:34:00] I now promote myself? And so, yeah, I think there’s just this, a lot of people out there, I think, just the trauma of the last couple of years has just made people really start wondering, know what life’s about, what they want from life, all of that sort of thing. So as you say, I think it absolutely is the time is now for a lot of people to rethink what they want to do. So, yeah, I think that’s an enormous subject.

And thank you very much for taking the time and I really appreciate it.

Anna Crommelin: Thank you Annette, take care.

Find Anna on Facebook or in her Facebook group or on Instagram